印尼總統(tǒng)蘇西洛訪談錄

1、<p>　　印尼總統(tǒng)蘇西洛訪談錄</p><p>　　阮次山先生,是華人世界最有影響力的國際時事評論家&#65380;專欄作家,他曾為《海外星云》雜志撰寫過“阮次山環(huán)球十日談”專欄&#65377;阮次山先生是美國圣約翰大學東亞研究碩士,曾任美國《國際日報》總編輯&#65380;美國《洛杉磯中報》總編輯&#65380;臺灣英文報《Taiwan News》副社長兼總編輯,其專

2、欄文章以不同形式在世界多個國家和地區(qū)的報刊刊出,如新加坡《聯(lián)合早報》&#65380;馬來西亞《星洲日報》&#65380;香港《經(jīng)濟日報》&#65380;紐約《中外論壇》等等&#65377;阮次山先生現(xiàn)為鳳凰衛(wèi)視資訊臺總編輯&#65380;首席評論員&#65377; </p><p>　　本文為蘇西洛接受阮次山專訪時的部分談話內(nèi)容&#65377; </p

3、><p>　　阮次山(以下簡稱阮):總統(tǒng)先生,謝謝您接受訪問&#65377;您當選總統(tǒng)半年來,領(lǐng)導著由350個民族組成的近2.4億人民,面臨困難的經(jīng)濟形勢&#65380;反恐及其他問題,您覺得您的國家目前的情況怎么樣? </p><p>　　蘇西洛(以下簡稱蘇):我深知我們面臨重大挑戰(zhàn),當然要盡一切的努力&#65377;本屆政府將全力以赴,解決我們面臨的問題,我堅信我們

4、能夠克服眼前的一切挑戰(zhàn)&#65377;實際上我們的經(jīng)濟正逐步好轉(zhuǎn),社會也正趨向穩(wěn)定和改善,我們面前仍有許多問題,需要一個個加以解決&#65377; </p><p>　　阮:其中最大的挑戰(zhàn)是什么呢? </p><p>　　蘇:在改革和民主化進程中,有許多事情我們必須要做,首先必須保持各地區(qū)政治穩(wěn)定,確保社會治安,維持法律與秩序&#65377;在遭受亞洲經(jīng)濟危機沉重打

5、擊后,我們必須重振印尼經(jīng)濟,必須實行司法制度方面的改革,加強執(zhí)法力度,以及其他必要的措施,使印尼的狀況在未來5年內(nèi)得到改善&#65377; </p><p>　　阮:您去年11月在東盟峰會上曾說,貪污腐敗再不制止,整個國家都將被摧毀&#65377;當時人人都談腐敗問題,反腐敗是印尼在您領(lǐng)導下進行的一件大事,您是否已經(jīng)開始采取行動,或者取得了什么成就嗎? </p><p>　

6、　蘇:是的,在反腐運動中,本屆政府做了大量工作,我本人也發(fā)布了總統(tǒng)令,下了不少具體指示,進行深入廣泛的反腐斗爭,這些指示都由與政府相關(guān)的反腐機構(gòu)加以執(zhí)行&#65377;你也可能注意到了,不少官員因有貪污腐化嫌疑,正在接受審查&#65377;我們還要繼續(xù)反腐敗,并積極避免腐敗的出現(xiàn),貪污腐敗現(xiàn)象一旦發(fā)生,我們就要對其實行法律制裁&#65377;因此我相信,堅定的決心加上具體的措施,我們一定能在范圍和數(shù)量上都大大減少

7、貪污腐敗的現(xiàn)象&#65377; </p><p>　　阮:東南亞一些國家有人說,貪污腐敗是發(fā)展經(jīng)濟不可或缺的魔鬼,您認為這么說對嗎? </p><p>　　蘇:這個問題應(yīng)從廣泛的角度來分析,尤其針對印尼的具體情況&#65377;我們必須改善印尼的經(jīng)濟,必須增加國民收入,有了這些之后,我們才能調(diào)動更多資源,在各方面全面發(fā)展改善人民的福利待遇&#65377;如果我們的經(jīng)

8、濟效率不高,貪污腐敗現(xiàn)象仍不斷發(fā)生,那就勢必影響國民經(jīng)濟的增長,人民的福利就難以改善&#65377; </p><p>　　阮:讓我們把話題轉(zhuǎn)到中印尼關(guān)系問題,你曾訪問過中國,您認為貴國和中國關(guān)系怎么樣? </p><p>　　蘇:目前,印尼和中國的關(guān)系是很好的,但我看到還有更多的方面,兩國可以共同合作&#65377;我很感激胡錦濤主席,也很感激溫家寶總理,他們也發(fā)表了同樣

9、看法,希望兩國合作關(guān)系得到進一步加強,往更好的方面發(fā)展&#65377;因此雙方領(lǐng)導都承諾,要加強雙方的廣泛合作關(guān)系&#65377; </p><p>　　阮:談到跟中國的經(jīng)濟合作,您希望在哪些領(lǐng)域吸引中國的投資呢? </p><p>　　蘇:我認為,很多領(lǐng)域都可以投資&#65377;但有一點我想跟你說,就是能源領(lǐng)域的前景確實不錯,我們需要發(fā)展印尼的能源工業(yè)&

10、#65380;電力工業(yè)以及油氣田工業(yè)&#65377;迄今,中國已經(jīng)在我們的電力等能源工業(yè)上做了不少投資,我們真誠希望中國繼續(xù)投資,在這個領(lǐng)域里多發(fā)揮作用&#65377;當然,貿(mào)易對印尼是非常重要的,我知道中國在尋找全球市場方面極具競爭力,但我也看到,印尼在中國可以找到市場,因此貿(mào)易也是雙方能更好地合作的一個領(lǐng)域&#65377; </p><p>　　阮:這么說,印尼準備向中國出口更多天然氣

11、和石油? </p><p>　　蘇:我們的政策是,一方面我們要向國外出口天然氣,另一方面,要用我們的天然氣為國內(nèi)服務(wù)&#65377;我們要使兩者保持平衡,我們要制定一套政策,使這兩個目的都能實現(xiàn)&#65377; </p><p>　　阮:在去年底遭受海嘯后,許多國家向印尼提供援助,運送救援物質(zhì)&#65377;美國是其中一個國家,當時報章說,印尼擔心美國借口援助,對印

12、尼加以控制或影響,您有此擔心嗎? </p><p>　　蘇:實際并非如此&#65377;我們非常感激國際社會,在我們最困難的時刻所給與的慷慨援助&#65377;當時國際社會的援助來得非常及時,不但美國,還有許多別的國家,如中國和其他兄弟國家&#65377;當然印尼自己也調(diào)動一切資源,投入緊急救援工作,但國際社會的援助,包括軍人救援工作&#65380;人員救護隊等組織,都無私地幫助了

13、我們,使緊急救援工作得以加速進行&#65377;回到你所提出的問題,我不認為除了人道主義援助活動外,還有別的什么目的,我能感受到包括美國在內(nèi)的國際援助,都符合人道主義的原則,因此我的回答是否定的,我相信人道主義援助在全球都可以行得通&#65377; </p><p>　　阮:今后貴國外交政策的重點是什么? </p><p>　　蘇:我們外交政策的重點,是保持和加強與東南亞及

14、東盟的地區(qū)性合作伙伴關(guān)系&#65377;因為這些地區(qū)必須穩(wěn)定&#65380;公平和繁榮&#65377;印尼可借此改善國內(nèi)形勢,當然我還要維持跟其他伙伴的關(guān)系,如澳大利亞&#65380;美國&#65380;日本&#65380;中國,還有歐洲以及非洲各國&#65377;基本上,我們會較著重周邊地區(qū),特別是經(jīng)濟和地緣政治,現(xiàn)在世界正走向全球化,我們必須保持廣泛的合作關(guān)系&#653

15、77; </p><p>　　阮:您在國內(nèi)問題上會重點解決哪些問題? </p><p>　　蘇:創(chuàng)造就業(yè)機會&#65380;減少貧困&#65380;改善經(jīng)濟&#65380;反腐敗&#65380;建設(shè)好的政府&#65380;保持社會穩(wěn)定,包括解決亞齊省和巴波亞省的問題,優(yōu)先考慮的問題很多,我將在這幾年內(nèi)努力進行解決&#65377; </p

16、><p>　　(Questioned byAnthony Yuen) </p><p>　　(Answered by Susilo Bambang yudhoyono) </p><p>　　Q: Mr. President , today marks the sixth-month since you became the president of Indonesia

17、 . To lead this country with 240 million people and 350 ethnic groups , with economy being not good. Now after 6 months of presidency , how can you lead your country now ? </p><p>　　A: I really understand th

18、at the challenge is great ahead of us . But of course I will do my best . My government will work really hard to solve the problems we are facing . But I believe very strongly that we will be able to overcome the problem

19、s . We will be able to face the challenges ahead . And actually our economy is improving now. The stability is also getting better and better. It means that there are many problems ahead to be overcome one by one. </p

20、><p>　　Q: what is your biggist challenge now? </p><p>　　A: Yes. We have to conduct many things along with our reforms and the democratization process. We have to maintain our political stability, s

21、ecurity, law and order across the regions . We have to rebuilt the Indonesian economy after it was hit by the crisis. We have to conduct justice sector reform,intensify our law inforcement, other things that are strongly

22、 needed to support the aim of achieving Indonesia for better future in the next five years. </p><p>　　Q: Last November in a summit meeting you said : ″ This country will be destroyed if we do not stop the co

23、rrosion of corruption . ″ Everybody is talking about the corruption . Anti-corruption as the major issue under your presidency . Do you already start your step or you have any achievement now ? </p><p>　　A:

24、Yes . my government has done a lot in intensifying the fight against corruption . I myself have issued the presidentian degree of how to combat corruption intensively and widely . And of course it is followed by concrete

25、 actions then by anti-corruption agency in this country. And you can see probably there are many officials that are strongly suspected to be committed to corruption .They are now under investigations. And we will continu

26、e this big challenge how to prevent corruption .And if co</p><p>　　Q: In Southeast Asian countries people used to say that corruption is a necessary evil to keep the economy floating , do you think it is rig

27、ht ? </p><p>　　A: I have to think in a wider compact , especially for Indonesia . We have to improve our economy , we have to increase our revenue. By having that , I could allocate more resources to develop

28、 in many sectors , I can improve the welfare of the people . If my economy is not efficient , if the corruption still occur again and again , then of course it will hinder the effort in improving the welfare of the peopl

29、e , in increasing our national economy. </p><p>　　Q:Let＇s turn our focus to Indonesia-China relations. You have visited China before, what do you see the relation between your country and China now ? </p&

30、gt;<p>　　A: Well ,actually the existing relationship and cooperation is well. But I could see that there are a lot of things to be done collectively . So my spirit and thank to president Hu Jintao and premier Wen

31、Jiabao that they also have been same view that we have to improve our cooperation to be getting stronger , closer and better . That＇s why both leaders are now fully committed to mutually strengthening and widening our bi

32、lateral cooperation . </p><p>　　Q:Talking about the economic cooperation with China , what kind of business do you want to attract from China to invest here ? </p><p>　　A: I think a lot of busin

33、ess sectors , but one thing I would like to tell you is that the cooperation in energy sector is really well . We need to improve our energy industry, power, oil and gas industry , and China so far has invested a lot dev

34、eloping our power and other energy industries . We do hope that China continue to invest and do more in this sector . And of course trade is very important for Indonesia . I know that China is very competitive in terms o

35、f finding market world wide .But I </p><p>　　Q:So you plan to sell more natural gas and oil to China ? </p><p>　　A: Actually our policy is , on the one hand , we have to export our gas to foreig

36、n countries ,on the other hand , we also have to utilize our gas for the domestic purpose . We have to have it balance . I try to develop policy to meet those two objectives. </p><p>　　Q: During the internat

37、ional relief operation in Tsunami disaster , Indonesian newspaper said that Indonesia is worried about the extension of the US aid program for fear of being used as the opportunity to get more influence on Indonesia .Do

38、you worry about that? </p><p>　　A: Actually it is not the case . We are very grateful for the international assistance and contribution to us in time of difficulties . The international donation and help wer

39、e very timely at the time . Not only from the US , from many countries , from China , and other brothers . Of course even Indonesia has mobilazed the potential resources at the time during the imergency relieve operation

40、 . But of course the impression of international community , the military , the relieve workers , the med</p><p>　　Q: From now on what is your priority in terms of the foreign policy in Indonesia? </p>

41、<p>　　A: Maintaining and improving regional cooperation is my first priority Southeast Asia , in Aseanbecause these regions must be stable , just and prosperous , so that Indonesia can take those advantages for im

42、proving our domestic situation . And of course I have to maintain cooperation and friendship with other players , Australia for example, the US , Japan , China ,and also Europe , and countries in Africa , basically even

43、we have to look more at our region , in a sense , probably in the percept</p><p>　　Q: What is your priority now in term of domestic issue ? </p><p>　　A: Creating jobs , reducingpoverty , improvi